Interview with Bigelf at Prog Nation!

Jordan Blum: How exactly did you get on the billing for Prog Nation? Are you friends with Dream Theater?

Ace Mark: Yeah we’ve known Dream Theater for a long time. Portnoy heard our stuff and he got us on the European bill of Progressive Nation. There were some other bands that had some financial problems so they dropped out so we got the gig. It’s been amazing. Everyone is really cool and it’s a really good package with the different mentalities of music and musicianship. All the bands are different from each other.

Damon Fox: It started with a CD to Serj Tankian years ago. His tour manager, Raymond, was good friends with Mike and passed him a Cheat the Gallows disc and the rest was history. He really went for it and posted some glorious blogs about us which we were very excited about. He came to a New York show and sensed a band that really needed to break open a little bit.

JB: Do you think it’s bittersweet to join the North American tour since Beardfish and Pain of Salvation couldn’t make it?

AM: That’s the right word for it. Actually, Portnoy is heartbroken over the situation but there’s nothing anyone could do.

DF: Well their label had financial trouble and that’s one of the problems with the industry today. People really need to support bands. If you love a band, buy their CD online. Buy the album on iTunes. Don’t just buy the tracks you like. That’s what really kills music. Digital sharing is going to happen anyway but if true fans purchase the whole record, the whole profit goes to the band. The thing is bands have to keep touring and bringing the music to the people. We’ve had our share of bad breaks too but you know, things happen for a reason. We were overjoyed and ecstatic. We were flipping out when Portnoy called and asked us to join the U.S. tour. He’s a fantastic person.

JB: Yeah Portnoy said that Prog Nation is all about exposing lesser known acts.

DF: We’re very appreciative and he’s a cool guy. So I guess the lesson is to keep handing out your CD because you never know where they end up.

JB: How’s the tour going so far?

DF: Oh well it’s going great. There aren’t any really interesting stories, you know. The audience is being really receptive.

AM: Everything’s been pretty mellow, pretty great. We had a close call the other night. We showed up late due to reasons we couldn’t control. We made it on time, just barely, and had a good show so you know things happen on the road but they got solved, too.

JB: So if you could tour with any bands today, which would they be?

AM: Good question. I guess I should say Dream Theater, right? Um, The Black Crows, Lenny Kravitz, The Rolling Stones. As long as it’s a good package and makes sense. There’s so many good bands still.

JB: As a guitarist, do you prefer the raw virtuoso style or the more tasteful, melodic style?

AM: Um I think there’s room for both. Whatever fits the song and mood should count first instead of trying to impress people. There’s no point in going ninety miles an hour all the time, but there’s of course moments for that too. I come from the school of less is more. As long as it’s memorable and meaningful, both approaches are good. As long as it fits the song and serves the sound. That’s what matters. I try not to think too technical. Bigelf is all about the mood and atmosphere anyway. You can’t really go too technical.

JB: I’m a big fan of harmonies and multiple tracked vocals. How do you get the vocals done?

DF: I mostly did the vocals, but I prefer band vocals. I think it sounds better. There’s not that much effect processing though. Occasionally we put on some echo on the lead. I tried to fulfill my vision of what I hear in my head and, as hard as it is to believe for people who’ve heard the record, I try pull it back a bit so it’s not three part harmonies on every song. It’s a bit of a Queen atmosphere because they were so produced in the studio but so much more rocking live. One can’t be without the other. You can’t bring the studio trickery into the live show.

JB: As a singer, are you more concerned with putting emotion and eccentric energy as opposed to singing perfectly?

DF: Nah I’m much more about being in the moment. I mean I hit flat notes all the time but it’s more important to put yourself out there. I want to play a precise show and have minimal mistakes, but when you perform on the intensity level Bigelf does which is more about the vibe and old school feeling and charisma and band image, the mistakes are part of the game. If you’re standing still focusing on the notes and singing, it’s an amazing sound but it’s not what we are. I like to be raw.

JB: You guys have said that music today is too processed and phony and you guys bring back the 70s hard rock raw sound.

AM: Absolutely. I mean why don’t people buy records anymore? Because they aren’t that good. It’s all very calculated, industrial, polished, thought out, commercial. Which I guess makes sense for the business. People want to make money and have jobs. That’s not the ideal situation for creating new music and keeping it interesting. Right now we have a second coming of progressive rock and retro rock. I think because the music industry is the way it is today, people can’t make money with records anymore. Then again, the whole music scene becomes more democratic and diverse so there’s room for everyone, which is great because it keeps things interesting. People are in it for the right reasons.

JB: Well with tracks like “Money…,” the album seems to be about issues of money and success.

DF: Yeah right now these are our topics. I’m singing about what’s wrong with rock and roll in general. What’s going on in my life personally. Most of this stuff is stuff I’ve gone through personally instead of just imitating Wish You Were Here. Pink Floyd was a huge band singing about how the industry was screwed up. We’re still a cult level band and I’m singing from a first hand experience of how this weird industry is not healthy for bands who are really trying to push forward.

JB: A lot of people have remarked about the amount of vintage equipment you guys use on stage. Why use them?

DF: It’s just better. The digital stuff like what Jordan form Dream Theater has is phenomenal with a lot of fire power. But for me, I have to have the Hammond organ because that’s what I’ve always had. It’s a pure sound. I’m trying to get attached to King Crimson and “Strawberry Fields” and Atomic Rooster and Uriah Heep. I’m not interested in a fake sound or new mini-Moog. I want the classic one.

JB: Do you think Prog appeals more to musicians and people that have studied music theory as opposed to you everyday listener?

AM: I guess maybe Prog fans are a little more open minded and interested in the technical things. But then again it’s all about the music. It’s not about which scales you play or what the time signature is. You can certainly enjoy prog rock without any of that theoretical knowledge.

JB: Well it seems that while part of appreciating it is the aesthetic, the other part is understanding what’s happening underneath it all.

AM: People listen to music because they can relate to the feel and the song, not because they’re impressed on the technical side of things like “wow that’s a cool mode they’re using. Wow look at how fast he’s playing.” Music is supposed to take you places and that’s why people listen to it.

JB: Good point. Now how does the USA differ from Europe in terms of the tour and do you think prog is having more of a comeback in Europe than in the states?

AM: I don’t know. I think audiences are the same really. I guess being in a band in more accepted in Europe. Everyone is interested in where we go and are surprised we’re in a band. It’s pretty much the same though. Rock fans are rock fans and that’s it.

DF: The American audience is an amazing progressive rock intelligent audience. For this kind of music, it’s top notch. A lot of Dream Theater fans are doing a bit of homework on the Bigelf sound before coming to Progressive Nation so they aren’t blind coming in. Most people haven’t heard of us and the reception has been great.

JB: Now I know you guys are big fans of The Beatles. What do you think of The Beatles: Rock Band and would you ever want to see a Bigelf track in one of those games?

AM: Yes and no. We certainly think it would be cool for fans to have that but you have to set a limit somewhere. It’s kinda hard to decide when it’s cool and when it’s selling out. Personally, I’d love nothing more than a Bigelf Rock Band but I don’t think that’s coming anytime soon. It’s a cool tribute to the Beatles but it’s also about the music business. They need their money too. It’s the way of the world these days. Everyone is cashing in. It’s a sign of the times. I’m looking forward to it.

DF: I am incredibly excited about that. I just watched the trailer. I’m pumped. Paul McCartney is the #1 icon in my life. I’m an aficionado on The Beatles. My son is really big on them too. As for Bigelf in a Rock Band, I’m pushing for a Keyboard Wizard game. You can add the keyboard to the Rock Band tracks and there are millions of songs that would be great. The problem with that, though, is that it can’t be faked like the guitar element. You’d have to have the keys there and to play on expert means to really play those parts. My son can play the drums on Rock Band so he can pretty much play the drums, but I’m not a big fan of the guitar because it’s hard to take my brain away from really playing a guitar. I can’t wait for the game. I’ve covered most of their songs with people so it’ll be a blast to play this way too. I’m a complete nerd about the Beatles. It’s all about the songs and sounds and melodies. Everyone is trying to do them. King Crimson and Ozzy for example.

JB: Now I know you guys are big fans of concept albums like S.F. Sorrow. Do you guys ever plan to do a concept album?

DF: I don’t know, maybe.

AM: Actually a lot of people consider the last few albums we’ve made as concept albums, which they deliberately aren’t.

JB: Well maybe thematically but I mean story wise.

AM: Right, lyric wise. I can understand what people perceived the other ones as theme albums but we’ve never purposely made one. Anything is possible though.

DF: Cheat the Gallows has some little things you can piece together but it’s not like S.F. Sorrow or Tommy where it’s lyrically tied together. Sgt. Pepper is one of those records that are hard to comprehend for me. It’s so ornate and textual and imaginative. S.F. Sorrow is a darker version of that and equally hard to comprehend. There are some really interesting tones for what they’re going for. There’s so little going on and it’s so simple but it creates a vast psychedelic landscape. The Pretty Things and The Move are the two underrated bands in the history of Rock and Roll. They just get no credit at all. I mean Jeff Lynne got his due but Roy Wood never did. He was a genius. I saw The Pretty Things in 1997. They were great.

JB: It seems like a concept album is one of the staples of the genre, along with epic songs.

AM: Oh, absolutely. We love opuses.

JB: On that note, it seems like “Counting Sheep” is the ending opus of Cheat the Gallows. It’s less pretentious and not nearly as long as most, but it’s still kinda the epic.

AM: We’re album rock, and that’s what sets us apart from most bands today. They don’t think about the continuity of the album like they did in the 60s and 70s. But you have to have the highs and lows, the light and dark on your record.

JB: Yeah, one of my favorite techniques in music is conceptual continuity and I love how Cheat the Gallows ends with a reprise of the beginning.

AM: Thanks. It’s definitely a better option than just having a collection of hit singles that all sound the same.

DF: Well “Greatest Show” and “Counting Sheep” go back and forth quite a lot. When you start an album in this way with these two bookends, anyone is going to think Sgt. Pepper. It was the first one and one of the only ones. I was thinking of a way to bring in the “true music lovers” part from the beginning to the end. It didn’t happen until the actual recording. It was written. I was just going to have this big finale at the end like the sheep fighting the mindset of the industry. It’d be a nice little wrap up. It wasn’t easy but it was definitely intentional. That line is actually written on my piano from the early 1900s – “it was built to please true music lovers.” I was writing and I just looked up and saw it. It’s very show like, and I think that style is missing these days. I don’t know if people aren’t brave enough, if people don’t care enough, or if people don’t want to be journey enough. That sort of Freddy Mercury, Paul McCartney, second side of Abbey Road where they mix styles together. It’s a lost art that no one really does anymore.

JB: Well I think less and less people can appreciate it these days.

DF: Oh sure. People are just too narrow minded. Even in the prog rock genre there are fans that are like that. People label Bigelf as prog rock and we’re not. We’re closer to The Doors. Music was made to be listened to and you either like it or you don’t. You don’t need genres. We’re more of the birth of prog rock. When hard rock was psychedelic and people wanted to rip off classical. Like King Crimson. Putting a bit of jazz in my rock. I think that’s where Bigelf stops. No one is interested in replicated the 1971-1977 progressive rock era with jam elements. The extended musical jamming with organ solos. I’d rather explore song because the instrumentation stuff has been done too much. There’s a lot of style and goals with us.

JB: Where did all the parts for counting sheep come from and what do they say about the album?

DF: It’s sort of a reflection of the mind and staying away from the heard and just a music industry type song in a lyrical, Pink Floyd mindset.

JB: Now I’ve noticed that Cheat the Gallows begins with a focus on the heavy rock of Led Zeppelin and Lynyrd Skynyrd but gradually uses sounds of Genesis, Camel and Brian Eno. Was it intentional for the album to get more “out there?”

AM: Um, yes. Bigelf is a very multifaceted band. There’s the obvious influence of Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Beatles, John Lennon, but also the most obscure stuff like Genesis and King Crimson. That’s how you do it; you take a bit of this and that instead of just making a carbon copy. That’s what keeps it interesting and hopefully creates your original sound.

DF: It was probably just how we had to space out the songs to give it the blend and tiny little storyline to follow. It’s not intentional sonically.

JB: Well, yeah. Everyone has their influences. There are so many bands that just imitate another band and I think “well you can pull that off, but why?”

AM: Yeah, what’s the fun in it?

DF: Bigelf takes styles from the past and conjures them into a new style. Certainly we have a vintage sound and mentality. So many people are quick to point out “Oh I hear a lick of this or that” without considering that it’s all similar. There’s so much rock and roll that sounds like other things but no one wants to talk about what Led Zeppelin borrowed.

JB: You guys make it all work very well.

AM: Thank you, sir.

JB: Now the production and orchestration of the album is very bombastic. It reminds me of ELO. Were they an influence?

AM: Absolutely. We love Electric Light Orchestra.

DF: Well as the keyboardist, I play the Hammond and the Mellotron so I’m already in touch with ornate instruments. The organ is very lush and big and bombastic. When you take it out of the blues rock idiom that most organ is used for and put it into our formula of Beatles, Pink Floyd and Queen, it becomes more grandiose and over the top. Then you throw in some conceptual, circus type tracks and it all flows into this carnival environment. We’d never recorded with an actual orchestra before but for this album, with the carnival feeling, I really wanted strings on the album. And there is certainly way less than people think. There’s Mellotron and organ on every track and Mellotron horns on every track, but there’s only strings on like four songs. People just feel this grandiose feeling and I don’t mind. The next record will be less. Hex was a darker, bludgeoning kind of sound and it certainly had its poppy moments. This is our, as everyone has said, Night At The Opera and Sgt. Pepper moment with more illustrious production.

JB: What do you think it adds to the music as opposed to just using normal rock instruments and production?

AM: On a record like this or with a band like Bigelf, it can never be too full. That’s the sound of the band. That’s what we’re all about and we get a lot of flak for that. People say “you guys should just go with the guitar, bass and drums.” That’s fine and one way to do it but Bigelf is a different type of band. Diverse influences. The song is king and when it requires crazy orchestration, go for it. Hex is a much more stripped down record, though it has its crazy moments. You want high and lows, soft and loud. That’s how you listen without being bored.

JB: Now the end of the album has a lot of humor and oddity. Are you guys saying to always have fun with your music even if you are serious artists?

DF: That’s a little bit of mania and psychosis going on. Try to let people just interpret what they think of it. Have a little fun.

AM: Yes. There’s the Sgt. Pepper influence with the horns and the playfulness. I think the part you’re referring to is called “naked eye” at the end of “Counting Sheep.” That was a cool circus way to end the album because it starts off that way. The weird circus stuff but it’s also dark. Next to “Counting Sheep,” it doesn’t sound too happy.

JB: Well it’s unexpected but that’s great. The best thing a band can do it be artistic and themselves. Some people won’t get it and it’s their loss and the people who do will adore it. Prog fans definitely appreciate it and that’s why the album is so big.

AM: Yeah we’ve been really lucky with record labels allowing us to have creative control. It might get big and move the band forward but what’s more important than money is to be proud of your work. Even if you never make it big, you’ll be proud of what you made.

JB: That’s what separates the artist form the cookie cutter people who just want money. Stay true to your vision even if only if your friends hear it.

AM: Exactly. That’s a given. Music comes first.

DF: You have to find the balance and the key to the doorway to success. You can’t sustain your music in your neighborhood. Selling out involves second guessing yourself and it won’t work. You’re trying to sound commercial but you aren’t being true to your instincts about being commercial so you won’t be successful anyway. I think the people who are commercial on the radio aren’t sitting there thinking “Oh I want to sound like Jethro Tull or Van Der Graaf Generator.” They’re being commercial and it’s coming right out of them. That’s how they hear music. With us, it’s definitely art first.

JB: Have any prog forefathers commented on your music or said they wanted to work with you?

AM: No. We had plans to collaborate with quite a few people on the last album but we decided to go on our own. I guess in the past Chris Robison from the Black Crowes produced one of our demos. That’s as close as we got. We’re so self contained that we know how to do it anyway but it’d be cool to work with one of your idols. We’re looking forward to that day if the right song or arrangement comes along.

JB: Are there any plans for the performance tonight involving other people?

DF: We’re trying to get Portnoy to play drums but then we’d have to figure out something for Froth to do.

JB: Well I wish you guys a ton of success. You deserve it and thanks for taking the time to talk to me. I can’t wear to hear your set list.

AM: Thank you Jordan.

DF: Thanks.